In leiu of recent events....

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Reef
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In leiu of recent events....

Post by Reef »

In lieu of a recent comment made by our fearless leader Lepage, I am, as of this point in time, resigning my position as an admin of the NHRL. This quote is from a response made by Lepage to an unnamed driver regarding an issue with the past NBS race.
Lepage71 wrote:Reef being behind you during the race is certainly an interesting fact, but it's not an accurate or meaningful perspective for interpreting what happened after the fact.
I now see exactly were I stand in this position, I'm just guy number 3. Evidently my word means nothing. I just seem to be the guy who listens to everyone's gripes about rules and penalties. Nothing more. Find someone else to mold into your 1 sided, 1 way perspective. I'm done.

As of now I will continue to race on the roster, but I am am teetering on the notion of quitting altogether. Lately this place is becoming a joke. Rules are written, posted and then interpreted on an as needed basis by the ones who are supposed to be in charge. This is not the way to run a league. People give valid arguements to issues they have and they get shot down just because. I personally have seen this in action, and have been on the receiving end of it. Oh well. Fuck it.
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d3efan
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Re: In leiu of recent events....

Post by d3efan »

Come on man...don't be too hasty. I don't want to see ya go, your point has been made too. I feel we are friends, and while I support your decision to drop your admin. status, I respect and look forward to competing with you on the track. Really don't want to lose that, among other things.

Remember: It ain't over 'till the douchebag's empty!
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Reef
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Re: In leiu of recent events....

Post by Reef »

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Rookiesrock
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Re: In leiu of recent events....

Post by Rookiesrock »

Same reasons Tommy left. :x
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d3efan
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Re: In leiu of recent events....

Post by d3efan »

I saw that once Reef. And the men were called: "Pilots!" lol
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lepage71
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Re: In leiu of recent events....

Post by lepage71 »

The way in which Reef is portraying this isn't fair at all.

That sentence has nothing to do with Reef in particular, but he's chosen to misread and misinterpret it for his own purposes.

In the NBS race, Reef was behind an incident involving the driver in question. At the moment of the incident, he shared his opinion with this driver about what happened and who was at fault. After we posted the results, the driver wanted an explanation about an infraction resulting from this incident and mentioned Reef's "on the fly" perspective from the race.

As part of my response (which I forwarded to both Reef and Skoty), I pointed out that a spontaneous opinion about an incident from an uninvolved driver does not hold much ground in comparison to our analysis of the replay. This concept is particularly relevant to this incident because that opinion simply amounted to "it was the other guy's fault." Obviously, we're not going to take this at face value and forget about the replay.

All in all, relying upon a live, play-by-play account of an incident from an uninvolved third party - after the fact - is a highly imperfect and ultimately impractical means of making a sound judgment about what happened. When our interpretation of the incident was combined with this reasoning, the driver seemed to understand and no further questions were asked nor confusion generated.

As I've explained, that sentence refers to a common and repeatable scenario. You could substitute "Reef" for any other driver. :alien: But somehow, by taking it way out of context, Reef has turned it into a convenient insult and used it as an excuse to release his misguided frustrations.

Some of you may be wondering why only Skoty and I were involved in the penalty decision. :cop When we assign penalties, the majority of infractions are pretty objective (think pitting stuff), but aggression-related items can be more subjective and we like to have multiple agreeing opinions about something before deducting points. Unfortunately, all three of us are rarely online at the same time, so it's not unusual for only two administrators to review an infraction. Early last week, I had compiled a fairly complete list of infractions, but I simply couldn't find Reef. Therefore, I asked Skoty to take a look at a couple of incidents, including the one in question, so that we could get the results up as soon as possible.

Due to this situation, we often amend the results after their original posting when something needs to be corrected. Reef knows how this works. Rather than providing this display, he could have easily brought up his objections in the usual manner appropriate. But he hadn't even looked at the replay before he became angry about that sentence. Thus, for him to turn around and complain about us ignoring him about the incident is absurd. As Reef himself once told another driver: "bad form on your part."

Sadly, based on his comments, it appears that Reef has officially jumped the shark. In truth, had Skoty or I done something - anything - other than extend a full measure of respect to Reef, I'd have some understanding for his state of mind, but he's displaying the same misinformed and reactionary frustration that has foiled others in the past. As we've all witnessed from time to time, it's a lot easier to be angry than to be right. As is often the case, Reef's lack of evidence, much less reason or cause, to back up his assertions, assertions that are truly meant to be insulting (note for the slow: the sentence wasn't insulting in the least), is disappointing but predictable.

From my perspective, Reef may even undermine his own rant. If we're so unjust, so unfair, and so unreasonable, then he shouldn't want to continue to hang around a place like that. I'm not suggesting that he leave because he's a good competitor on the track. You can't, however, have it both ways: gripe, make up stuff, and go on like nothing happened. No, if Reef sticks around, then he'd effectively counter everything that he believes.
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Rookiesrock
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Re: In leiu of recent events....

Post by Rookiesrock »

Hence, that sentence refers to a common and repeatable scenario. You could substitute "Reef" for any other driver. But somehow, by taking it way out of context, Reef has turned it into a convenient insult and used it as an excuse to release his misguided frustrations.
Why do you write this filth Lepage? Misguided frustrations? He has to answer all the questions drivers have to the best of his knowledge about penelties etc that you create. He needs your support not your misguided bullshit that leaks from your mouth.
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lepage71
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Re: In leiu of recent events....

Post by lepage71 »

Reef's frustrations ARE misguided. He was never disrespected, kept out of the loop, mistreated, etc. There are other issues that he perceives and he's reacting to them. The first time that Reef mentioned a lack of understanding about the rationale on this particular penalty to me was in this post...not exactly a productive medium.
Reef knows how this works. Rather than providing this display, he could have easily brought up his objections in the usual manner appropriate.
What makes it even worse is that the same scenario even happened in an incident at Daytona.
viagra6car
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Re: In leiu of recent events....

Post by viagra6car »

It would be wonderful if someone could come along and clean up all this period blood and we could just go race every week

You're acting like women
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bover907
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Re: In leiu of recent events....

Post by bover907 »

What most here still seem to forget is that you can't tell squat about a person's intentions over a thin server. In most instances, a car is not where it seems, nor pointed in the actual direction that it is on only that driver's computer screen.

This is why on all penalties where intent is implied, the suspected offender upon seeing his penalty in the race results, if he thinks he was wronged, should upload his own replay for skoty, lepage etc to look at. That's the only way you can attempt to prove what your intent may or may not have been. If you didn't save your replay, or will not upload it on the league space provided, then you don't have a gripe.

In fact, most of the time you know when you've been involved in a incedent that my be questioned, and you could upload your reply right after the race, and tell those guys in a PM to take a look at it.

This is more about 'for future reference' advice for new guys than anything about the posts above. Both Reef and Lepage know my opinion on these type of things, they don't need it here.
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lepage71
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Re: In leiu of recent events....

Post by lepage71 »

Well, 6, I certainly didn't instruct Reef to produce some crazy post out of nowhere. This isn't how you conduct yourself. I'm willing to come out, defend the truth, and point out the obvious. If that angers someone or makes me a bigger target, then I'm comfortable with the consequences. Apparently, he and Rookiesrock would prefer us to roll over, take everything back, and apologize the moment they don't approve of something. In reality, they're probably more angry that I even have an opinion and don't hesitate to present it.

I don't need to manipulate what happened, revise inconvenient facts, or invent random assertions in order to present an argument. Just look around at the efforts we've spent to run the league in a fun, fair, and respectful manner and you'll ultimately recognize that there is some unnecessary selfishness going around among a small minority.

Most of the league knows that we take the time to explain or reconsider penalties. During instances like this, it's no coincidence that drivers who don't appreciate our decisions make their appearances. In their minds, we instantly become the irrefutable bad guys, demonstrating all of the hypocrisy necessary to support their accusations . Rather than reasoning out actions and ideas, sentences are spliced, words are spun around, and a litany of suddenly-convenient facts are invented.
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Petty43
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Re: In leiu of recent events....

Post by Petty43 »

Reef is my teammate, admin or not. Reef is a stand up guy. Any member or creator of this league who doesn't not appreciate the time and effort that Reef has, and had put forth to this league should not be overlooked. He's the only admin who's around on a daily basis. Reef is one of the best drivers, and competitors in this league, and for you Lepage to shoot down Reef is total bullshit. He's around all the time, on ventrilo, and private messages with quick and efficient replies. I always quote music. "You don't know what you got, until it's gone". Reef rules! All fucking Rise!!!
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lepage71
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Re: In leiu of recent events....

Post by lepage71 »

Any member or creator of this league who doesn't not appreciate the time and effort that Reef has, and had put forth to this league should not be overlooked.
This sounds more like what Reef's doing to Skoty and I. The only problem with your observation, however, is that we've done absolutely nothing to warrant this outrage.
for you Lepage to shoot down Reef is total bullshit.
Why? Should I say nothing?

I recognize Reef's anger, but it doesn't mean that I'm going to accept something that isn't true.
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Petty43
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Re: In leiu of recent events....

Post by Petty43 »

I was just throwing out there that Reef has done a lot for NHRL and it's members. I don't think Reef is delusional. There are a few here that I do think that about, but let's not crack that egg open. There's nothing wrong with telling somebody that they did a great job, and that the shoes he had created will be big shoes to fill vs. this vocabulary debate.
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Re: In leiu of recent events....

Post by groverhardt »

I request that this post end please. Misundertanding or not, I think Reef should have brought this up as a private conversation. I love racing and spending time with Reef and Lepage, especially teasing Reef about the doobage and Lepage about racing in general. I call for a group hug. Not to be insensitive, I look forward to seeing lepage lose to me on the track, and Reef in the mix. I hope it's only a question of whether Reef as an admin is to be or not to be, with no hard feelings. :footinmouth
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viagra6car
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Re: In leiu of recent events....

Post by viagra6car »

Yes this drama needs to end immediately

Everyone just shut your mouths and get over it. It's up to Mike if he's going to bother doing anything for the league anymore...everything else goes on as usual

Lock this discussion now so nobody else can post
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lepage71
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Re: In leiu of recent events....

Post by lepage71 »

No, this meltdown won't be swept under the rug. I repeat, I did not tell Reef to start this thread. This is an echo. If he's going to make things up on the forum, then I'm going to counter him with the facts on the forum. I'll keep saying this until everyone's tired of hearing it.

Sure, a private setting would have been the appropriate medium to share these accusations. That's the whole point. We had no idea this was coming and hadn't done a thing to deserve it. Reef had an agenda, however misguided, and darted to the forum with it. That was his decision.

As demonstrated in other posts about this topic, there may be a couple of drivers who don't really care about the details or just take Reef at face value due to their own anger about penalties. While they may never admit it, or desire to be confrontational with him, they can't deny that they now know what actually happened (or hasn't, to be more accurate).
kyle
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Re: In leiu of recent events....

Post by kyle »

V6 who pulled your chain for you to tell people to shut up? This has nothing to do with you...maybe you should just climb back in your hole, and put your muzzle back on...unless your hoping to be in line for the vacant position :evil:
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Rookiesrock
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Re: In leiu of recent events....

Post by Rookiesrock »

Albeit uncomfortable for some, this thread is a healthy form of communications and the sharing of how a person feels. Sharing how you feel is neither right nor wrong. It is what it is. When skoty starts posting in this thread then we know it has hit rock bottom.
If this is to remain healthy then let's not skew the facts. He called you out? By calling you fearless and accusing you of bias with gray rule areas. Those are the facts. He posted your insensitive quote about him and that was all I saw in this thread.
Since then you have called him misread, misguided, misinformed, misinterpreting and with making up stuff to name just a few. It sounds like you have residual feelings over another issue and have word wrapped them into one big composition. You have abused and misused the mis prefix. Can we stick to the facts that started this. Unless there is new evidence that can be shared. Otherwise this is a debate between lepage and his reflection. I wonder who wins those ones?
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Petty43
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Re: In leiu of recent events....

Post by Petty43 »

I would participate in a NHRL group hug, but i would want to be in the middle of this group hug first.
:grin:
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