Has to be said #2

Donaldson · Post by **Donaldson** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:44 pm

first off i'm not bitching about my pit road penalty, i broke the rule, i accept the 5 points rather than come close that wall and damage my car on this tight pit lane.

#79 (speedyextie): driving in the incorrect pit road lane on lap 31 (-5 points)

Seriously - 5 points that entire race....seriously...that's it?!??!?!?!

lets do a race recap of speedy's race shall we:

lap #6 - hit wall caused pile up and damage #38
lap #19 - hit wall and damage 89,38, and d3
lap #22 - hit wall
lap #23 - hit #38
lap #24 - blocking vip from passing
lap #50 - hit #21
lap #58 - hit #6 up into me causing me damage
lap #60 - squeezes me into the wall causing more damage (these 2 incidents basically cost me my first nbs win)
lap #63 - damaged bmx
lap #74 - damaged big mike by coming to a complete stop and hitting #91,#60 and d3
lap #75 - hit reef and #21
lap #78 - hits wall
lap #89 - coming to a stop and damages #51
lap #92 - hitting me up the hill (hes determined to cost me this race)
lap #94 - coming to a stop damaging big mike and #38
lap #98 - hit #38 and caused #51 damage
lap #99 - runs into the pit entry barrier on the backstretch and stays there a few seconds
lap #103 - hits wall
lap #107 - lightly touches #51 and comes to rest on front stretch causing #21 and #60 to pile into him
lap #110 - hits wall
lap #115 - damages #89

If you are seriously not penalizing this clown more than 5 points, i like rookiesrock am leaving this place.

Reef · Post by **Reef** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:57 pm

Let's see if your fact filled post gets an award winning response or if it gets ignored.

Petty43 · Post by **Petty43** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:11 pm

:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrtwWraQ ... re=related

Petty43 · Post by **Petty43** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:14 pm

I've always been scared of clowns. I totally agree with Donaldson here. You can't have a guy with that many racing incidents, not receive any penalty's. If drivers here don't have enough practice or feel that they are going to run at a competitive speed, why show up? Being 15 laps down is not a great showing. There is nothing wrong with taking a DNF. We do have throw away races.

Donaldson · Post by **Donaldson** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:19 pm

and its not like this was just a "bad" race for him, hes been here long enough and he is still way outta control on the track and is a hazard each and every week. i don't care what admin in the world is reviewing this race, there's no defense for him here, he had over 20 different incidents at this track. I demand an explanation.

groverhardt · Post by **groverhardt** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:09 pm

I'm protesting my 10 point penalty on lap 39

THAT IS SO WRONG!!! It was lap 38. :badgrin:

viagra6car · Post by **viagra6car** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:00 pm

I think there is more than you listed of don

But the other problem was the bs fighting after the race in the server

Post by **lepage71** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:59 pm

Reef wrote:Let's see if your fact filled post gets an award winning response or if it gets ignored.

The first step towards recovery is letting go. This isn't healthy, Reef.

Donaldson's post isn't even about me. We all know that I unraveled your rant for what it was, but you shouldn't need to make random comments in order to feel like you're still getting your shots in. You've already made your best attempt and you didn't get anywhere because it was fueled by anger and emotion, not by stepping back and thinking about it.

As far as the current topic goes, we've never really penalized anyone for having a sucky race. Unless we missed a particular incident, Speedy did not take someone out as a result of aggression, pegging someone into the fence, pit road violations, etc. Instead, he caught aprons, crashed himself, and spun out a bunch of times. We've always considered these things to be non-penalizable incidents. It wasn't pretty, but it's not what we penalize.

In the past, we HAVE parked drivers for being off of the pace. We didn't see anything during the previous night's CUP race, however, that compelled us to tell Speedy that he couldn't race in the NBS event. The thought never crossed our minds. He certainly ended up having handling issues in NBS, but I can't forecast what a league member's going to do prior to a race. I don't think it's a lack of effort, because I've seen him practicing from week to week.

I'm not saying that this wasn't a challenging race. It's Martinsville. There's always stuff to dodge and someone gets angry about something that happens every season. But this is a little over the top. If someone's going to leave because of one driver's particularly bad race, then I consider that to be a natural filtering process for those who don't want to be around the moment things aren't perfect. Believe me, I've raced in a lot of other leagues and the racing doesn't even compare. This year, it's generally been good but with the usual blips that I've come to expect from season to season. Martinsville, historically, has been a predictable and reliable source of those bumps in the road.

As far as the fighting goes, that's just disappointing. The entire league is built around respect, fair competition, and sharing advice. There's definitely a stunning decline in general civility lately. I want nothing to do with it. I can't explain it other than to identify it as pure, unfettered frustration. If this anger leads to more incidents on the track, then everyone knows the likely consequences. I propose it end sooner rather than later.

Reef · Post by **Reef** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:26 am

Instead, he caught aprons, crashed himself, and spun out a bunch of times. We've always considered these things to be non-penalizable incidents. It wasn't pretty, but it's not what we penalize.

Well then, why was I docked at Cali for dangerous driving? Not consistant with what you just said.... I hit the apron and caused skoty to have an incident, yes. No intent, I didn't see the black NHRLcar in my rearview and decide to over drive and cause a wreck. In your words, (please see quote above), not a penalizable offense. Did I get a penalty because I pissed you off and went against the establishment? I have 1 incident and get nailed and this guy bounces off the entire field like a pinball and gets nuthin. Where the consistancy and fairness there? You must have overlooked that, huh? I have stepped back and looked, evidently everyone else has as well. You seem to be the only one with the warped perception. Kinda tough to argue with the majority.

Post by **lepage71** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:43 am

If you enter the apron too aggressively, slide onto the racing surface, and wipe someone out, then you're going to be penalized. Unless you lose a tire or something, it's one of the most obvious penalties out there.

Drivers must maintain safe speeds on the apron and avoid sliding onto the track surface.

Since the league began, every single driver who has done this has received a penalty. Your penalty was nothing unique nor a measure of revenge. You don't have to agree about Speedy, but don't mischaracterize your penalty as being unfairly assessed.

Reef · Post by **Reef** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:05 am

lmao, did u watch the replay and see me get damage earlier in the run? Why would I aggressively enter pit road knowning I had damage? Again, you make no sense.

Post by **lepage71** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:07 am

I looked specifically at your miles-per-hour entering the apron. I knew that you had been dinged up earlier in the run and you were simply going too fast. If you had damage, then you should have been even more cautious. Most drivers without damage weren't entering the apron at your speed.

Donaldson · Post by **Donaldson** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:07 am

my whole point is you cant dock someone 5 points for just having a pit road violation and compare that to what speedy did this race and be basically equal to the same penalty. that's total BS and you know it. i take it hes not gonna get more than his 5 point pit penalty so I'm done here. i have my own standards i race by. i considered this league to be the best when i first got here now its turned into a playground. i don't wanna race in a league where a driver can be a hazard like that race after race and basically took out the whole field at marty and nothing be done about it. lepage if you honestly believe that his 5 point penalty this race is punishment enough then i'm done here.

Reef · Post by **Reef** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:22 pm

Hmmm, I see a pattern developing. 2 of our best racers are now gone due to your one sided point of view, 1 admin stepped down for the same reason. How many more top level drivers are going to leave before you open your eyes and see the error of your ways. Donaldson is a stand up guy who has never given even one ounce of trouble to anyone and yet you tossed him aside like trash just to prove your own ineptness. If anyone should be believed, I'd side with Donaldson in a heartbeat. I think I see what is going on here: You do not like to be strong-armed into any decision what so ever, so when you see an angry post about a penalty and whomever demands action, that pushes your buttons. You instantly go on the defensive. You post long winded, big worded posts in an attempt to confuse, disorient and otherwise discourage people from arguing with you. How many times can you be presented with outright facts and still stick to your warped perspective? How many top tier drivers are going to leave before you wake up and smell the coffee? Maybe you are trying eliminate the competition that threatens your dominance and replace them with kids and people who have no business on a race track.

RoushFenway9916 · Post by **RoushFenway9916** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:40 pm

The only thing I have to say is Reef, Rookies, and now Donaldson all brought up similar issues that are/were tossed aside. Where there is smoke, there is usually fire!

Donaldson · Post by **Donaldson** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:35 pm

"We didn't see anything during the previous night's CUP race, however, that compelled us to tell Speedy that he couldn't race in the NBS event. The thought never crossed our minds."

really, well he finished 12 laps down, that should have raised a red light

"If someone's going to leave because of one driver's particularly bad race"

I'm not leaving due to ones bad race, i'm leaving because the rules and penalties are not fair anymore and the continuation of letting idiots race when they have no business on the track. Basically what you are telling everyone is that being off by inches on pit road when no one else is on it is a more punishable offense than a driver causing damage to half the field. you docked him 5 points for pitting but 0 points for all the other crap.

yes that makes perfect sense

groverhardt · Post by **groverhardt** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:23 pm

RoushFenway9916 wrote:The only thing I have to say is Reef, Rookies, and now Donaldson all brought up similar issues that are/were tossed aside. Where there is smoke, there is usually fire!

Where there is smoke, there is usually Reef!

Petty43 · Post by **Petty43** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:00 pm

SpeedyExiter · Post by **SpeedyExiter** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:07 am

I am not gonna make any excuses. And if your reading this waiting for an apology, you will be dissapointed.

I have a few replies,though

Donaldson wrote:first off i'm not bitching about my pit road penalty, i broke the rule, i accept the 5 points rather than come close that wall and damage my car on this tight pit lane.

#79 (speedyextie): driving in the incorrect pit road lane on lap 31 (-5 points)

Seriously - 5 points that entire race....seriously...that's it?!??!?!?!

lets do a race recap of speedy's race shall we:

lap #6 - hit wall caused pile up and damage #38
lap #19 - hit wall and damage 89,38, and d3
lap #22 - hit wall
lap #23 - hit #38
lap #24 - blocking vip from passing
lap #50 - hit #21
lap #58 - hit #6 up into me causing me damage
lap #60 - squeezes me into the wall causing more damage (these 2 incidents basically cost me my first nbs win)
lap #63 - damaged bmx
lap #74 - damaged big mike by coming to a complete stop and hitting #91,#60 and d3
lap #75 - hit reef and #21
lap #78 - hits wall
lap #89 - coming to a stop and damages #51
lap #92 - hitting me up the hill (hes determined to cost me this race)
lap #94 - coming to a stop damaging big mike and #38
lap #98 - hit #38 and caused #51 damage
lap #99 - runs into the pit entry barrier on the backstretch and stays there a few seconds
lap #103 - hits wall
lap #107 - lightly touches #51 and comes to rest on front stretch causing #21 and #60 to pile into him
lap #110 - hits wall
lap #115 - damages #89

If you are seriously not penalizing this clown more than 5 points, i like rookiesrock am leaving this place.

Reef wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:22 pm

How many times can you be presented with outright facts and still stick to your warped perspective? How many top tier drivers are going to leave before you wake up and smell the coffee? Maybe you are trying eliminate the competition that threatens your dominance and replace them with kids and people who have no business on a race track.

(and also by Reef » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:26 pm )

this guy bounces off the entire field like a pinball and gets nuthin. Where the consistancy and fairness there? You must have overlooked that, huh? I have stepped back and looked, evidently everyone else has as well. You seem to be the only one with the warped perception. Kinda tough to argue with the majority.

Donaldson, your view of these incidents is your opinion, which everyone has a right to express .Your facts,as Reef was so nice
to point out for us, are biased by the statements made in it! These 2 in particular :

lap #60 - squeezes me into the wall causing more damage (these 2 incidents basically cost me my first nbs win)
lap #92 - hitting me up the hill (hes determined to cost me this race)

Do I have that much control of how your race goes! "NO! oh... I forgot. I WAS DETERMINED to cost u that race. Man ,I kept waiting for u to come around behind me so i could slam you into the wall .It was tough going there for a while,cause someone else was determined to knock me out of the raceI knew
it! only managed to nail Donaldson a few times,I hope its enough to "Cost him the race" Of course that is ridiculous,......because I really was determined to take "Kyle" out and never managed to even tap him.

Reef. I was really surprised to see your post .I thought we were friends and got along pretty good!When i have a question ,you are the guy i think of
that will give me the answer.You dont make many suggestions to me in practice and you dont have to, but i always take your advise and use it.
If you thought I was that bad ,then you should have said so .But you don't . I know all those incidents weren't of my own doing and so do you.And for you to call them FACTS (thanks alot bro) and attempt to use them against Lepage is appalling. He went by the rules that you ,I and the rest ,have agreed to abide by.If anything,i thought he was very lenient ,toward drivers involved in those so called FACTS!
These are real facts:
1.I practice alot with whoevers in the server.
2. I am the last one out at the end of the night ,99% of the time.
3.I don't cause as many wrecks as i did when i first started racing at NHRL.
4.Last year in the 2008 Matry Cup race I finished 17 laps down.
5. This year in 2009 marty cup Race i finished 12 laps down
6. I dont ever quit!(I have one exception to this ,i learned from the past,unless I have a hardware malfunction)

Petty43 wrote: » Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:14 pm

I've always been scared of clowns. I totally agree with Donaldson here. You can't have a guy with that many racing incidents, not receive any penalty's. If drivers here don't have enough practice or feel that they are going to run at a competitive speed, why show up? Being 15 laps down is not a great showing. There is nothing wrong with taking a DNF. We do have throw away races.

Petty, if you felt this way, why didnt you tell me in practice.You dont make many suggestions to me and you dont have to.Those you did make ,i have applied.how many times did i hit u in this race? How many of these so called facts do you truly percieve as being entirely my fault?

Donaldson wrote: "We didn't see anything during the previous night's CUP race, however, that compelled us to tell Speedy that he couldn't race in the NBS event. The thought never crossed our minds."

really, well he finished 12 laps down, that should have raised a red light

"If someone's going to leave because of one driver's particularly bad race"

I'm not leaving due to ones bad race, i'm leaving because the rules and penalties are not fair anymore and the continuation of letting idiots race when they have no business on the track. Basically what you are telling everyone is that being off by inches on pit road when no one else is on it is a more punishable offense than a driver causing damage to half the field. you docked him 5 points for pitting but 0 points for all the other crap.[/quote}

yes that makes perfect sense

No ,it doesn't make sense to compare an incident from another race involving someone else and apply it to another driver in another race with an
entirely different driver and come to a conclusion to assess on not assess a penalty .Besides that ,this statement Iam not positive but i'm pretty
sure ,Donaldson,paused ,and had to look up the results of The Cup race because "the thought never crossed his mind' to make a report of Speedy's lousy driving and crash causing incidents in the Marty Cup race and submit them in the forum for everyone to see,thereby making a case for the administration to begin an investigation to restrict Speedyexite from competing in the NBS race. and possibly the rest of the races. HUH?

Finally, I am trying my best, and i am not out to get you.I'm just here to have fun.I practice alot ,and my racing is improving! (Another fact)if i'm not as good as you,good for you.I will get there.But ,with the statements you guys have made, a guy would begin to think he was being run off . or that I'll get mad enough , and retaliate and get myself booted.
Then you need alot of help, because " I AM DETERMINED to stay. I DON"T QUIT?

Post by **lepage71** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:18 am

Reef wrote:Hmmm, I see a pattern developing. 2 of our best racers are now gone due to your one sided point of view, 1 admin stepped down for the same reason. How many more top level drivers are going to leave before you open your eyes and see the error of your ways. Donaldson is a stand up guy who has never given even one ounce of trouble to anyone and yet you tossed him aside like trash just to prove your own ineptness. If anyone should be believed, I'd side with Donaldson in a heartbeat. I think I see what is going on here: You do not like to be strong-armed into any decision what so ever, so when you see an angry post about a penalty and whomever demands action, that pushes your buttons. You instantly go on the defensive. You post long winded, big worded posts in an attempt to confuse, disorient and otherwise discourage people from arguing with you. How many times can you be presented with outright facts and still stick to your warped perspective? How many top tier drivers are going to leave before you wake up and smell the coffee? Maybe you are trying eliminate the competition that threatens your dominance and replace them with kids and people who have no business on a race track.

RoushFenway9916 wrote:The only thing I have to say is Reef, Rookies, and now Donaldson all brought up similar issues that are/were tossed aside. Where
there is smoke, there is usually fire!

At least come up with some new material, guys. I believe we've already covered this stuff.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9622
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9648

On a side note, Reef playing the role of defender of the facts is like John Wayne playing a Mongol in The Conqueror. It's almost too funny.

There's an unholy connection between Reef's and Rookiesrock's self-created crises, but I'm not sure what Donaldson's topic about Speedyexite has to do with either of their problems. What's this "tossing aside" business? I answered Donaldson. You don't have to agree with the answer, but I still haven't seen a contrasting argument about a particular incident or incidents that deserve points deductions. Instead, I see more off-topic remarks and accusations from drivers not named Donaldson.

Speedy had a rough race. No one disagrees about this. It's happened to others before and it will happen again. We can't predict it ahead of time. At Martinsville, it seems like someone steps up to be "that guy" every season. Heck, last year, I was leading in each series and the SAME DRIVER took me out in both events! Donaldson should be angry. For whatever reason, he happened to be involved in a bunch of Speedy's incidents.

I disagree with Donaldson, however, that we must apply a general "sucking" penalty for Speedy's poor performance. We've never done this. I don't see what it accomplishes. We've asked drivers to park and after repeated disasters, to regroup, skip some events, and practice, but we're not about inventing something in order to beat someone over the head for a terrible race. From an incident-by-incident standpoint, Speedy didn't violate the league rules. At a certain point, perhaps he could have saved himself some trouble and parked, but he wasn't making overly aggessive or dirty moves.

I didn't have time earlier, but I've reviewed the replay again and organized Speedy's incidents (from Donaldson's list) into categories. For learning purposes, I'd like to reinforce why each incident did not receive a penalty. The overall point? Although he did not receive any penalties, Speedy's struggles DID have negative consequences. He was 15 laps down, after all. He didn't "get away" with taking out cars and scoring some great finish.

Unless we missed a particular incident...

Note: there is one technical exception about the incidents not deserving penalties. I simply didn't see one of the incidents on Donaldson's list that should have been penalized. It's explained further down.

I get the appearance problems. Perceptually, it doesn't seem right to suffer the same points deductions as another driver who was an absolute mess. Even worse, this is the same driver who cost you a victory. But it's not completely fair to compare the penalties from driving incidents with pitting infractions. They're different animals. The pitting stuff is objective. You either did this or you did that. In driving incidents, everything's subjective and mistakes have more tangible consequences. There are specific reasons why we consistently enforce the pitting rules, regardless of whether pit road's empty or not. I've explained it before, but we can get into the reasoning again if anyone has questions about it.

Anyways, here's my modified version of Donaldson's list. Some of the more notable incidents have my comments (*) beneath them.

----------

These are situations in which Speedy either crashed by himself or not much actually happened:

lap #22 - hit wall
lap #24 - blocking vip from passing

*Speedy swerved in front of GTSVip for some reason, but it was only for a lap and no contact took place.

lap #78 - hits wall
lap #99 - runs into the pit entry barrier on the backstretch and stays there a few seconds

*Speedy lost it coming out of turn 2 and nailed the mini pit road's outer barrier. Since we use a thin server setting, his car appeared to be stationary, but he was actually backing up.

lap #103 - hits wall
lap #110 - hits wall

----------

Speedy hit the apron and caused damage:

lap #89 - coming to a stop and damages #51

*Speedy hit the apron in front of Reef. He did not come to a stop, but slowed to about 10 or 15 MPH off of the pace. On the exit of turn 2, Reef bumped Speedy a few times and sort of jammed his way underneath him in order to get out of there. Speedy then spun around on the back straight but didn't hit anything. From an initial glance, Reef didn't seem to back off all that much, but he didn't have all that much time to react, either. I thought it was a racing incident, but it was certainly not due to an overly aggressive move by Speedy. He just hit the apron out of nowhere.

lap #115 - damages #89

----------

Speedy spun out and caused a crash:

lap #6 - hit wall caused pile up and damage #38
lap #19 - hit wall and damage 89,38, and d3
lap #58 - hit #6 up into me causing me damage

*This incident was complicated. Speedy appeared to spin coming out of turn 4, slide into viagra6car, and then they careened into the left-side wall. Donaldson, who was behind them, tried avoiding the melee by going towards the right-side wall, but he actually bounced off it and deflected into v6 entering turn 1. v6 bounced back into Speedy and pushed him onto the apron. Speedy then came off of the apron, came together with v6 yet again, and then v6 tagged Donaldson. It was quite the sequence of events, but the only mistake was Speedy spinning out. The rest was just a crazy set of bounces.

----------

Speedy bumped someone without causing a full-bore crash but may have caused minor damage:

lap #23 - hit #38
lap #50 - hit #21

*Speedy clearly bumped Mustang entering turn 3, but not much happened other than that. Mustang slid up the track and may not have even received damage.

There's also a contradiction on your list. I don't see how Speedy can be completely at fault for both laps 50 and 74. On lap 74, a similar incident occured, but the roles were reversed. Speedy was the leading driver and the trailing driver entered the turn fast enough to punt him into the wall. Again, in dangerous driving infractions, penalties sometimes depend upon the consequences.

lap #75 - hit reef and #21
lap #92 - hitting me up the hill (hes determined to cost me this race)

----------

Speedy bumped someone into the wall and caused significant damage:

lap #60 - squeezes me into the wall causing more damage (these 2 incidents basically cost me my first nbs win)

*This did warrant a penalty. Before I looked at the replay again, I already had notes about many of the incidents from Donaldson's list, but I didn't have anything about this particular one (and didn't remember anything about it). I just missed it. We try to cover as much as possible, but it happens from time to time. Originally, I was probably watching Mustang, who was the first of a group of drivers to enter pit road. I also remember getting caught up trying to figure out Davis' warp issue at the pit road entrance. The incident happened pretty quickly and it's easy to miss. We always correct inconsistencies resulting from things that we didn't see or forgot about. Just let us know when it happens. Preferably not on the forum in this manner, though.

Speedy didn't demonstrate much awareness here. To be fair, he was probably more concerned about Davis beneath him and may not have even noticed Donaldson. Each driver, however, should be responsible about his line and avoid hitting someone into the wall in order to preserve momentum. I wouldn't call this aggression but it also wasn't the "heads up driving" advocated by the league rules.

----------

Speedy wasn't entirely to blame:

lap #63 - damaged bmx
lap #74 (it's actually Speedy's lap 70) - damaged big mike by coming to a complete stop and hitting #91,#60 and d3

*Speedy slowed unexpectedly between turns 2 and 3, Big Mike hit him from behind, and he spun out of turn 4 and collected a bunch of cars on the front straight. Speedy was hit from behind a few times throughout the race, as he was slower than many cars in the middle of the turns, but everyone else just forced him up the track and little else happened (like in the lap 50 incident). The trailing driver could have been demonstrated some patience in this situation. Big Mike didn't adjust at all and closed at least 4 or 5 car lengths entering turn 3. It wasn't like they were close together without much reaction time for the pursuer.

lap #98 - hit #38 and caused #51 damage

*This is another weird one. Speedy hit the right-side wall in turn 2, cut across the track but not all the way to the left-side wall, and this combined with Davis's warp to create another mess. It's hard to tell what happened, but there's nothing particularly stupid about Speedy's driving.

----------

Other:

lap #94 - coming to a stop damaging big mike and #38

*Speedy was surprisingly slow in the corner, Big Mike hit him again, but Speedy just slid a bit and recovered. Big Mike added to his front-end damage and continued on.

lap #107 - lightly touches #51 and comes to rest on front stretch causing #21 and #60 to pile into him

*Speedy hit the wall between turns 3 and 4, got together with Reef exiting turn 4, hit the wall again, spun out on the front straight, and more mayhem ensued. Now that I've seen this again, I actually think Reef caused it more than anything. I recommend watching them both from the overhead perspective. I guess it just depends upon who you're watching. As you toggle between them, the replay always makes it seem like the car you're not watching is the perpetrator. But looking at it a little more analytically, Speedy came down a couple of lanes after hitting the wall, but Reef also moved up a couple of lanes as he exited turn 4. By the time Reef got to him, Speedy wasn't really moving down anymore. This reminds me a lot of that North Carolina incident, where one car came down to a certain point but the other car just kept going up.

I'd definitely say that some penalty breaks were given here.

Tattered as they are, Donaldson refering to this incident inadvertently punches further holes in Reef's conspiracy theories. You'd think that we'd try to capitalize on penalizing Reef for his involvement in a questionable incident like this. Or so his theory goes.

:

----------

Keep in mind that I have no particular reason to make excuses for Speedy. That's not what this is. He's made a couple of pointless rants and accusations himself in the past. We will, however, extend the same measure of respect and rules interpretations to him that we do to everyone else. If this angers someone, then I can't do much about it. I'm not pretending that Martinsville didn't happen, but let's not blow this out of proportion. The racing has been as good as it has ever been this season. I wouldn't say the same for the individual conduct between drivers, however.

From my adaptation of Donaldson's List (I predict a movie deal), I want everyone to recognize the black hole that we'd spiral into if non-deserving stuff like this was constantly penalized. The infractions would be endless. Yes, Speedy had a lousy race, but there was no particular incident that deserved a points deduction (excluding the thing we missed). We're not going to make something up for the purposes of revenge or teaching him a lesson. Like I said, we've seen him practicing, haven't seen outrageous stunts in prior races, and the idea of benching him hadn't crossed our minds. If he does this consistently in the future, then we'd start worrying about those options. I'm sure, at the very least, that he and others will learn a thing or two from Martinsville.

We also shouldn't ignore the track's role in exacerbating this. Like clockwork, there's a controversy after Martinsville every season.

NASCAR Heat Racing League

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