Watkins Glen off road driving

[rookiesrock8]

31 times to be exact. Sorry.

BBFF member

[rookiesrock8]

Quote
It is obvious that drivers either ignored the rules mentioned in the server altogether or were quite forgetful. We have a rules page for a reason! Congrats to kyle4445, both clean and fast!

I made major brake and shock adjustments after qualifying. These changes caused my car to pull hard right when braking on the back stretch. It was all I could handle to keep it off the guard rail on the right, but I still went thru the grass. I apologize. I was not intentionally trying to gain an advantage. I practiced all week on expert mode and realized friday after the busch race that there was a major braking difference between hardcore and expert. The way I drove it was the best way I could handle the car at the time. I'll get it right next time.

BBFF member

[Viagra6Car]

was it a boring night tonight rook?

Viagra6Car's LCH Racing League Site @ www.geocities.com/legendcarheatracin

[Proverb356]

I had one bad start due to late breaking prior to the pace lap restart. I don't have the replay, but I am pretty sure I didn't hit anyone on the pace lap restart.

Was I penalized for a lap that didn't count toward the actual race? If we are going to be penalized for laps that don't count (those prior to the final restart), then there are a lot of penalties that have never been handed out. I doubt me and D3 were the only ones who had a bad start (on lap 1) during one of the many Watkins Glen restarts.

If I hit a car on the pace car restart, then I guess I have no case. I am pretty confident that I didn't though. I remember Lepage telling me that I was going to hard into turn #1, but that was that "3rd" restart prior to the pace lap start. I did not cause any problems on the previous starts or pace lap restart to my memory. Like I said, I don't have the replay, so I can't go check. I just remember not having any damage to my car early on in the race. To my knowledge, the rest of my starts were clean (no damage taken or given).

My question is... Was I (Grove) penalized for a restart lap rather than lap 1 of the pace restart?

[Skoty Speed]

The short answer Prov, is yes.

Now for the long answer......

You and D3 were penalized because both of you rear-ended cars twice during the restarts. You are correct when you say, "there are a lot of penalties that have never been handed out". The Cup series seems to have a problem with being WAY to aggressive at the start of races. (we seldom have any restarts in the Busch and Truck series).


We realize mistakes are going to happen and we will have the occasional restart. But what happened at The Glen, (in my opinion, and I think I can speak for lepage also), was just plain ridiculous. We are constantly reminding drivers before the race starts to "GO EASY" on the start. It seems very few drivers take that serious.

We are not trying to single out you and D3 by no means. We know many drivers have violated this rule during the season. We ( the administrators) are to blame for letting it go this far hoping it would get better. We SHOULD have enforced this rule from race 1.

So from now on we WILL be enforcing the rules more strictly as far as restarts go.

I refer to the rules page:4. Drivers may be penalized for aggressive moves at the start of the race. We want to avoid the situation where a driver makes a bad decision trying to gain positions early and then asks for a restart when the aggression results in a wreck. A race restart is not to be used as a "crutch" for seeing how many positions one can initially gain. We run long league races, not sprint races. If you go easy early, you are better off in the long run.

As with any other penalty this is reviewable. So if you would like to give your side of it or have it reviewed for any reason, please email the administrators.

Skoty

[rookiesrock8]

No V6 it was not a boring night. It's a boring day though and I got more to say. I was driving for Eaglekeeper and when I sub I feel a responsibility to that driver to do the best I can and not to break rules or drive irresponsibly. Which I did. Of course this is ONLY a game and for fun but drivers do take it seriously. I started this string to explain why I was driving the way I was. Some drivers show up at race time and haven't practiced their setup or starting or pitting or driving in traffic etc..etc..etc..etc. I feel if I don't practice these things I'm not taking this serious enough. Not practicing these things does effect other drivers. There are enough unpredictables in this game that you don't need more situations you can't control. So someone says to themselves since they haven't used there set or something that they'll start in the back. Well that still effects others because you have subs or bad qualifying efforts that still have to start behind that person.
I'm writing this post in answer to 6's question of boredom and in no way is addressing the proverb356/D3efan issue. Maybe more later if/when V6 responds. Lol.

BBFF member

[Viagra6Car]

You should be out golfing if you're that bored today. Btw you mentioned a sub and that sounds like a good idea for dinner tonight...you inspired me

Viagra6Car's LCH Racing League Site @ www.geocities.com/legendcarheatracin

Edited by: Viagra6Car at: 8/18/04 4:44 pm

[DusterLag]

lol...........

that does sound good mabye i will have that also!

Race Of Real Champions
www.rorc.tk

Edited by: DusterLag at: 8/18/04 5:08 pm

[lepage71]

I agree that A) we have not enforced the newer 2004 restart rule correctly and B) a few races have seen way too much aggression on the start. The most likely explanation for "A)" is that we simply have been way too "nice" in certain incidents on the grid. Too often someone has been reckless at the start trying to gain a spot yet ask for a restart when the plan goes sour. This is a rule that will be enforced much better in future races.

Just as an added note, accidents early in the race are in no way being penalized any more than before. There is a big difference between too much aggression and an accident, and it is usually very obvious.

[Viagra6Car]

and the only explanation for B) is that Busch racers are better...as I have said all along

Viagra6Car's LCH Racing League Site @ www.geocities.com/legendcarheatracin

[d3efan]

I didn't even realize I was penalized until just now and I went back to check the results page. I don't recall "rearending" anyone on any start. I was punted into the sand on one though. Kyle told me he was gonna brake early and, the first one did catch me off guard, but as I recall I only "leaned" on his bumper slightly. Perhaps on the second one too but...lol Kyle did I give you a good whack or simply a love tap? Let me know and let the admins know. I'd like to get my 10 points back and clear my good name !

I believe that folks are just plain skairt that I'm poised to vault to the top of the standings . And will penalize me at every turn eh? Especially with Michigan coming up. An easy victory for the #28 team. Talk amonst yourselves!

D3...lost BBFF member...

[rookiesrock8]

Sick and tired of being held down by the man eh? Gotta love the positive attitude you bring D3. Your not lost D3 you've only been misplaced.

BBFF member

[EagleKeeper]

um ..... I believe I am the reigning champ @ Michigan D3.... and I also still believe it should be renamed "Eaglichigan"... lol Sooooo..... Rookie.... if you want.... I can email you my "winning" Michigan setup if you would be willing to continue the tradition of the #93 in victory lane at that wonderful track. lol

P.S. just my opinion here.... but I think a really good driver can recover from a bump/rub/lovetap ... sometimes i think it's fun when i get bumped.... and challenging as i work my wheel/brake/and throttle to save it and keep the 93 on track. It really gets my heart pumping hard. But.... it does suck when it wrecks me lol

[kyle4445]

the second one wasn't bad...i think we should start all the roadcourses on a pace lap ..that way we would have all the restarts and a big mess...

[sledge4]

I have a problem with the penalty i received for "off road driving"? I can only assume it means what it says, I don't recall it happening 10+ times, but everyone's replay shows something different I guess. And if you are talking the little bus stop turn as going off road, I thought we were told we could have all 4 on the grass on the 1st right hander. And the only other thing I can think of is having 2 tires on the white rumple strips coming out of it, which shouldn't be a penalty. And also, not sure why it has to say "10+ times", if i did it 10+ times, does that mean I wouldn't be penalized if i did it only 9 times. Makes it seem like your making an example of myself or the other driver who had this deduction. Maybe a simple email explaining what was wrong, instead of making it look like i was trying to cheat.

Also, just about every race it seems I am getting docked -10 for speeding on pit road and each race I go back and it may have been 3-5 mphs over at the line at most. I of course can't say I never did anything more then that at other times, but most occurances are just that..slightly over. But i slow down slower then the limit right after to counter it.

I think the penalties are getting alittle out of hand in that regards. If someone blasts down pit road to gain a spot or show no attempt at slowing, that's when a penalty should be assessed. Like I said, yeah, I go back and look at those occurances where a penalty was given, but as stated I always slow down below the limit right after before acceling back to the limit. Not sure how that is a penalty. @#%$ if I'm going to get a 10 point penalty for that, I might as well blast down pit road and take the 10 points for it instead. But this all leads back to having Black Flags on. Because leaving it to the discretion of the human eye or inaccurate replays isnt' fair.

Just thoughts I had to vent. I know the admins do the best they can. But these penalties seem like candy to the admins, they just can't get enough once they start, lol.

Thanks,
Will

Wbrv, Sledge4, Camry
Managing Partner

[rookiesrock8]

I can't wait to hear the admins reply to this. I can feel the love already.


P.S. Go easy on him guys.

BBFF member

[lepage71]

Camry the league has sent you a series of screenshots detailing why your particular penalties were given. I do not believe we judged this incorrectly...but secondary reviews are of course allowed and we may ask three other drivers for their take on any of the incidents (including those of other drivers during Watkins). However, the screenshots will be included as our half of the argument in the secondary review and will be given to the three random drivers if this is what you decide...

As far as 2004 penalties are concerned, I actually feel we have been TOO lenient, especially on pit road speeding...at times we have given almost 20 MPH margins of error!

And the racing continues to get more competitive and closer each season...even though there is indeed a big difference between blasting on pit road and going over by 10 or 15 mph, racing truly is a game of inches and seconds in this regard.

[sledge4]

That's cool lepage, I didn't mean it to sound standoff-ish. It just didn't look or feel it on my end. I appreciate the screenshots so i can match my replay to them. In fact, that may be a rule of thumb in the future for the admins. Because i'd like to learn from errors I make. Obviously pitroad speeding is commen sense, but like "off road driving", the screenshots point right out to me what you saw.

Thanks for reviewing.

Will

Wbrv, Sledge4, Camry
Managing Partner

[lepage71]

Thanks for understanding from which perspective we were seeing things. If there is ever a circumstance where a driver is confused about their penalty, they are more than welcome to email us about it...

My personal opinion about the "off road driving" is this:

Certain drivers (such as Ramrock and AlaRedBone) retired from the event due to bad handling cars. They were all over the place in the inner loop, where the "off road driving" was occuring. Had they been able to drive across the grass, as in the fashion in which we handed penalties, they would have likely fared better. However, they drove that portion of the track in sync with the rules and suffered because Watkins Glen is a difficult course to run, especially the inner loop.

The track is supposed to be somewhat realistic, so skipping part of the pavement in our opinion, is not "cheating", but it is taking a little away from what road course racing is ultimately about.

[kyle4445]

don;t know what the hell i was typing before but....what i meant was if we had a pace lap at all roadcourses we would avoid all the restarts and the mess that happens on the first turn..