Plate track suggestions/please add your own

[Rookiesrock]

TALLADEGA is here! A place where your foot doesn't want to let off the gas! It's hard to equate full throttle+patience=winning. I guess it isn't. :lol: So before we get started let's review.
This is longer than I thought it would be.
These thoughts and opinions are mine and are not meant to be taken as rules or how a person should drive. Just my experience's and the causes and effects.
Get a pencil and a beverage and let's get started. Insert lol here.

The following are facts. And in no particular order.
1.) Plate tracks are 95% mental and the other 5% is having a stable car.
2.) Don't ever ever believe your spotter when he says clear. He's a liar. This is Very important.
3.) Bump drafting will wreck your spoiler if done too hard. This mod is especially sensitive to spoiler damage when bump drafting. If you plan on leading at anytime during the race, I suggest not trying it. It will never get completely fixed once damaged. The small sliver that never gets fixed will slow your speed in clean air. When in a line of 3 cars or more, the only car that can help by bump drafting is the car directly behind the lead car in the group. Any bump drafting farther back is a waste of time. This said I personally only bump draft a few drivers I trust because it does take 2, and when done correctly the driver your bumping won't be able to tell, and you won't sustain any spoiler damage. If not comfortable doing it the I suggest not to.
4.) The difference between fast cars and slower cars is in the tenths and hundreths. No one at a plate track will ever have a car that's going to pull away from the pack. When in a group of cars lining up single file will go much faster than cars jockeying for position.
5.) Yes following another car makes you seem faster. But this is not always the case. While practicing try drafting behind many different cars. Because some 2 cars will go faster with you behind them vs. you in front of them.
6.) A long line of cars will give you the sense that someone's brake checking. Commonly called the accordion effect. It's not the case. So leaving room between cars will save that spoiler.
7.) Again these are facts. Now on to my opinions. I'm not sure what to call them it's just the way I race. So you know what to expect of me.


A.) When passing for position early in the race. Some drivers don't expect alot of passing early. Usually it's "let's get in line and see if we can pull away". Others see if they can squeeze their car down low and stick their nose under the car in front of them. This usually ends in a wreck because the driver that came down is not expecting it because they are concentrating on drafting the car in front of them. If they know there's a car below them then they'll move up and leave lots of room not a sliver. Attempting to pass like that will result in innoccent drivers getting caught up in someone else's mess. If you want to pass the car ahead of you then try it on the highline and see who goes with you. It takes a few laps but it's not impossible to pass outside.
B.) Blocking. I have seen some herendous blocking in practice's before. Why block unless it's the last few laps? Changing lanes to jump in front of a group of cars that are attempting to pass will result in damage varying from mild to an all out wreck fest. The deciding factor will be the driver you are blocking. Does he brake? Does he hit you? Resulting in a large range of scenarios. Does he swerve and try to go around and then a large mess insues? Does anybody really want the fate of their day in the hands of the driver their blocking?


Finally
PATIENCE does rock at a plate track. Keep the car clean to make another try later.
Just my thoughts. I'm not in any way telling drivers how to drive. Race like you want drivers to race you.

[DaveO]

Some drivers might not beleive this but when your in a draft only the lead car should have there pedal nailed to the floor, the drivers behind the lead car should be feathering there pedals, u will be just as fast as the lead car, and this will help to avoid damaging your spolier or causing wrecks.. One more suggestion that I think is real important is stay in line during the first fuel run, it avoids wrecks. I've learned that patience is also very important. Also practicing with alot of peeps to see how they react to different types of situations... There's only certain guys I know that I trust doing different types of drafting with.. So practice, it does pay off!!!

[Reef]

Rookie must be out of town and bored :badgrin:

Good points tho

[Big Mike]

Praticing together sounds like a fantastic idea .The problem is I check the server almost every night and most of the time no one is there. How about a scheduled pratice?Or maybe I just need a life? ops:

[lepage71]

http://www.nhrl.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=29

[DaveO]

Praticing together sounds like a fantastic idea .The problem is I check the server almost every night and most of the time no one is there. How about a scheduled pratice?Or maybe I just need a life? ops:

My problem is I get up way early in the morning to get on late at night. If ya schedule one way early in the evening I'll come.

[efgordon]

LOL sweet.

tosses .02 in the hat


i have a small problem with 7.) and more specifically mr rookie, i do not agree to all the facts and in particular sentence in 3.) and i quote "When in a line of 3 cars or more, the only car that can help by bump drafting is the car directly behind the lead car in the group." (the rest of the facts are spot on)

my responce - not when done correctly. What i consider bump drafting must be just way different. IMO, anytime you hit someone in the rear in a spot on the track where they shouldent expect it OR cause damage to either car then YOU ARE NOT BUMPDRAFTING, you are being a bad driver.

anyway, i am always more than willing to be in 3rd and "bump draft" someone right around the outside to attempt a pass. so any car can be "helped" somehow or another from proper so called "bump drafting". Acually, the only person who doesnt get helped with bump drafting is the person doing the bumping. I garun-dam-ek style-tee that the leaders of the race after the first pit cycle will be the ones who dont have bump drafting damage.

Blocking at the end of races on the low side of a plate track is to heat what peanut butter is to jelly. I've learned to except that fact long ago and thats probably why i am always trying to push on the highside. Alot of guys were blocking on the friggin high side at daytona. now thats lame as hell, IMO

one last thing - if all plate track races were at 6x, they would be more fun.

(you should bronze that pencil and send it to the NHRL museum and they can put it in the case with my shoes and dozers plate setups.)

[DaveO]

Ah EF your wrong my friend!!! Rookie is dead on correct about..Number 7. And you can bump draft without getting spolier damage there's just a certain touch to it.... If you can't do that, then I would suggest to most drivers to not even try bump drafting..
Also 3rd person in a draft should never bump draft.. Thats just a plain fact from plate tracking 101..

EF, get online afterwork one day this week, I'll bet ya a beer I can push ya around the track and bumpdraft ya without you feeling a thing.. :

[efgordon]

perhaps the misunderstanding is a disagreement on the definition of bump drafting all together.

I have witnessed alot of crap from 3rd on back in a pack. when i hear the 5th guy in line smash into the guy 4th for no reason and say "oh, sry, i was trying to bump draft" the first thought in my mind is "thats not bump drafting, thats just being stupid"

the fact of the matter is any unexpected contact while in line from 3rd on back doesnt do anyone anygood really and we shouldent be putting the label "bump drafting" on it because thats just an excuse for bad driving. again, its just my .02

proper "bump drafting" by my definition can be used to help the car in front of you no matter what position he is in if the goal of the bump is to "help" the guy in front catch up, pass, set someone up for a pass, ect, ect, ect. this correctly used bump drafting is always done when the guy in front of you should expect to be pushed because of the options out of his own front winshield. which by the way is an important factor, knowing what is going on infront of the car your fixing to push is key, and if you dont know and push anyway, its bad driving. again, perhaps i am struggling with just the definition of "bump drafting" because i darn sure dont think it describes all stupid contact on the plate tracks.

call me crazy, but driving up someones ass to bump them when they are already up in someone else's ass is just plain and simple bad driving. (which means i agree in principle to the theory, but just not all the facts)

[DaveO]

Like it was said previously.. The only person that should attempt to try bumpdrafting is the car behind the lead car, any other kind of bumpdrafting is just plain stupid, cuz you will just windup getting spolier damage, or causing a wreck. .. Just my 02. cents

[efgordon]

Like it was said previously.. The only person that should attempt to try bumpdrafting is the car behind the lead car, any other kind of bumpdrafting is just plain stupid, cuz you will just windup getting spolier damage, or causing a wreck. .. Just my 02. cents

ok, how bout this scenerio

after the last round of pitstops, me, you, and rookie look up at the standings and we are the lead 3 and have like a 4 sec lead on a whole gaggle of cars from 4th-9th or so.

so, as i know we would (cause i have raced with you 2 knuckleheads enough to know) get inline and try to break away from that group. Rookie takes the point, your in 2nd, and as usual i am just chillin in 3rd. so comming to the s/f line on one lap, you are just fixin to bump rookie (because as you say, the 2nd guy pushing is fine) and in the short part of the track between s/f and turn 1, you give rookie a 1st class well done push and he goes rocketing into 1. well, you didnt want to run him over in the turn, so you checked up a bit (which is normal) however, comming out of 2, rookie is still flying and has a good 2 car length lead on you. well, thats where i come in. i noticed this all along since i watched you bump him going into one. its my job (as i see it as 3rd in line trying to support the break away) to notice that and be ready to bump you as soon as we are out of 2 on the straight away (again, this is assuming that you need the bump, if its not needed, then only a moron would do it anyway). my slight bump allows you to catch and bump rookie much earlier on the back straight away than had i not bumped you. yes, its also my job to know my bump needs to be followed by me checking up so i am not too close to you when you get fixin to push rookie again. had i not joined in and bumped you when i did, then you might not have got that 2nd bump on rookie until just going into 3, perhaps even too late and the only thing you would be able to do in turn 3 was check up and wait until the next better opportunity to bump. with me in 3rd doing that, there is a decent chance we could break away, but if the only bump drafting or should i say "co-operation" that happens is between the leader and 2nd, then those guys in 4th on back will be on our ass in another 5 or 6 laps for sure.

[Rookiesrock]

I agree with your scenario EF. Actually my post was to discourage any "bump-drafting". I know for a fact that I can push just as well by drafting than bump drafting. Anyways I brought it up cuz I see drivers bumping each other in line from 3rd back. The BBFF R&D has proven that it hurts more than helps bumping the guy in front of you if he's already on someones ass. : What soon follows is a wreck. FACT! :badgrin:

[Rookiesrock]

Oh and BTW Reef, Yes I'm bored out of my skull.

[lepage71]

The move that has always annoyed me is the "temporary hero" routine that inexperienced drivers cannot get out of their heads. Yes, everyone, we know the draft gives you a brief boost. However, instead of slingshotting every lap, choose more opportune moments to make passes.

[Stick77]

Since everyone is throwing out money i igured i would. Here .02
Say Ef is leading the race Rookie is second and by luck i havent got wrecked in third. Its the final lap we are getting ready to enter turn three and Rookie jumps out to the high line for the pass.Me in my super fast CoorsLight #77 Dodge has a decision to make.I like both guys,who do i go with,push Ef cause its the easiest way or help Rookie, Who earlier helped me out. I decide to go high and slam my awesome looking CoorsLight Dodge bumper into his propelling him atleast 3 cars infront of Ef for the win and finish 2nd myself. Would that bumpdrafting be ok. Actually i would do neither, I would shoot for the middle ,put us three wide, beat up the fenders and then go on to capture my first NHRL Victory. Ahh victory is Sweet. What was i talking about again?

[bover907]

Ahhhhh yes! Talladega! My favorite track. NOT! we all know how I feel about restrictor plate racing. Just because I hate it, doesn't mean I don't know how to do it.

Well, all of a sudden, the size of the NHRL will again grow to 20, from the 10-13 drivers that made the past fifteen races. All these guys we haven't seen since daytona will just about all wreck out and quit. What fun.

It has been my personal expierence that staying a foot or two behind the car in front, (IN HEAT) works just as well as bump drafting. if ur at a distance (in cockpit view) where the bottom of the guy in front's rear bumper just starts to dissapear below your hood, then you are in the perfect drafting spot. you will push and get pulled just fine around the track.

Also, just another thing I've figured out about plate racing.... .7sec That's the magic number. .7seconds is the distance past which you can't suck up to a car in front of you.

[Rookiesrock]

Opinions vary on the facts. Thank you to EFgordon whose always been my moral compass (straightens me out/keeps me focused). I think we all agree that patience is a must have piece of equipment for Talladega. If you must decide quickly between should I "keep it floored" or should I "let off", let off please. Save it for the last 5 laps.

[efgordon]

The move that has always annoyed me is the "temporary hero" routine that inexperienced drivers cannot get out of their heads. Yes, everyone, we know the draft gives you a brief boost. However, instead of slingshotting every lap, choose more opportune moments to make passes.

I assume your talking about just the plate tracks here?

also, i am guilty of this alot. for several reasons.

1. If i am the last in line of a pack, then i almost always go into the turns after i get a run on the highside. i never really thought much about it, but i imagine that spotter hollers out every time "outside". i guess that could get a annoying. but just because he says i am high, doesnt mean i am "really" trying to pass. sometimes, depending on many variables, i just like to keep the rpms up right at the entrance to the turns. too many times i get too close for comfort there on someones bumper and feel/see the acordian thing unfold. i would just rather be high and get back inline on the straight away.

2. other times (usually later in the race) i will also "slingshot" past on the outside almost every chance i get. i really dont think i am being a "temporary hero" more than "fly fishing". btw - do we now name our peeves? is that what we have come to here? lmao anyway, i am always sticking my car around the outside every good run i get hoping that someone out front will go high at the same time and i could go from like 6/7th to 2/3rd and pushing someone to the lead. it takes me going outside like 20 times, for every one chance i get that something real might develop. so, when you go into a race knowing your not gonna bother car wrestling for the inside lane, then you cant really sit around and wait for your opportunity. IMO, you have to constantly be ready for the big move and thats why i will slingshot by someone on the outside at the back of a drafting pack on almost every lap. the only exception to the rule i have is not doing it when i am in a pack that is trying to break away from another pack or is trying to real in another pack.

3. when nearing pitstops i get extremely nervous if i dont know for sure who is staying out and who is pitting. A few years back i was riding around taking it easy at one of these plate tracks. when pitstops started i got screwed because it was a big lead pack and like 3 or 4 cars directly infront of me pitted and it left me with too big of a gap to catch up to the others in front of me. (my gears must be way different than bover's. i am "in" the draft at .4 or less behind. at .5 or better, i am toast and drop like a stone) I lost the draft and about 4 secs within just a lap or two and never caught up for the rest of the race. so when the pitwindow gets close, sometimes i start trying to pass anyone i can and as often as i can try anyway.

4. daytona - going outside of someone via the slingshot is a big part of my strategy at tona alot of times. IMO, running the fast low line at the entrance of the turns is harder on the tires than being outside. I will constantly go on the outside of someone knowing they HAVE to stay on the bottom and knowing that at some point i might have better tires. I dont think that is morally wrong to do when racing. heck, there are not alot of fun aspects to these plate tracks, i'm probably just reaching for that one to entertain myself. BTW - I think most drivers finally got sick of me being on the outside going into the turns at tona, cause nobody bothers trying to keep it low anymore. alot of people were either blocking or just pushing others into the wall and that sucked!

[efgordon]

Since everyone is throwing out money i igured i would. Here .02
Say Ef is leading the race Rookie is second and by luck i havent got wrecked in third. Its the final lap we are getting ready to enter turn three and Rookie jumps out to the high line for the pass.Me in my super fast CoorsLight #77 Dodge has a decision to make.I like both guys,who do i go with,push Ef cause its the easiest way or help Rookie, Who earlier helped me out. I decide to go high and slam my awesome looking CoorsLight Dodge bumper into his propelling him atleast 3 cars infront of Ef for the win and finish 2nd myself. Would that bumpdrafting be ok. Actually i would do neither, I would shoot for the middle ,put us three wide, beat up the fenders and then go on to capture my first NHRL Victory. Ahh victory is Sweet. What was i talking about again?

if you practice alot of pushing around the outside in all sorts of situations, it can prepare you for this moment. you should be able to tell if rookie set me up properly and if you indeed could move up behind him and push him by and perhaps create your own opportunity. IMO, if you can tell the attempted high side pass was not setup properly (again, i am using your scenerio with only less than 1/2 of a lap to go), then you file in low and make him pay for that "mistake"

[Stick77]

Cool,Im following you then EF